Curiousity like a nun or a negress or a girl with glasses

Valley is actually 5 minutes from my apartment, work is pretty far for me though. Yeah, I looked at WLAC's catalog, pretty slim pickin's. But I don't need that many credits, and I really liked the campus and feel of the school, so who knows. I'm big on surroundings and the "feel" of a place. :)

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nejgasmo.livejournal.com

I like the feel of WLAC too, really. I remember the last college I went to had a shitty feel to it, so I found myself missing a lot of school just because I hated the atmosphere. But at WLAC it's got a nice feel to it, so I end up looking forward to going everyday.

Except that the visual basic class is boring as shit, but when he drones on about crap I already know I just read while he's talking. :)

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freakylemur.livejournal.com

over here, we're pushing for wave power...
It could easily power the whole damn country...
Anyway... Gotta remind people to boycott esso!!
Keep up the good struggle!

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I read that p.s. site... I think the whole Artic drilling thing is past now because they found the largest reserve of oil ever found in the Gulf of Mexico... And to be honest, I hope they don't tap that sucker for a while... The whole U.S. strategy is to make the other nations of the world bleed dry their oil supplies and then we are the only ones left with oil... Bad thing is, we thought they'd run out 30 years ago... Shows ya mother nature is pretty damn funny... If you wanna get me on a subject I get furious about, it's human rights... Environment is a real yawner... It will still be here after we kill off ourselves...

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That's pretty offensive. I feel very strongly about the environment and I would never say "human rights is a real yawner". Besides, I feel the exact opposite. I don't think the environment can outlast our willy-nilly destruction of it's resources. To think so, TO ME, seems uneducated, presumptuous, and just plain wrong. But you seem to have a lot of faith, in people and that "things will be okay." So I see, we should let Mother Nature fend for herself, even though we gobble up her resources and trash her daily. Nice. Everything will be okay in the end, right?

One thing that really pisses me off about people is that they don't see connections. When it comes to the environment and the world, everything is affected by every action, no matter how small...it is affected. Pollution isn't just a matter of having clean air to breathe, it's a matter of ecological balance, of changing climate, and in turn, affecting crops, livelihoods, and animal life.

So you see, your "human rights" is connected. The farmer in South America who can't earn a living anymore because his crops or fish have died out due to groundwater pollution, a change in sea water temperature after hundreds of years of equilibrium, or an oil slick is human, and he is affected. Earning a decent living wage is a human right, is it not? Pillaging the rainforest isn't only about cutting down trees. It's about clean air and the livelihood of people. Uprooting trees can cause erosion, it can upset the balance and affect crops and air for miles around. It can change climates. Things aren't as simple as people like to make them. No one likes to go further, see where the next dominoe will fall.

I choose to work for the environment because it affects all other areas of life and most people don't see this. Yes, I am concerned with human rights, civil liberties, and the like, but to me...it all goes back to securing an equilibrium with the planet. To me, that is the most important thing. I spend my time and energy trying to "save the world" for ingrates, so I would thank you not to piss all over something I believe strongly in.

p.s. I apologize, but it seems you've hit a nerve.

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Besides, people have arms and legs and voices. They CAN fight back. The environment only has those who give a damn to fight for it.

I'm sorry, though I feel strongly about human rights and generally not treating people like shit, they piss me off to no end. It's hard to feel sorry for people who are just idiots, people who make the same mistakes over and over again, people who cheat whenever they can, people who are too fucking lazy to help themselves. This does not mean that I don't like people. It means I love them, but they keep letting me down. They're like family, it's unconditional, but I generally base it on a case by case issue. Everyone starts out on equal ground, it's up to you whether you want to be a shithead or not. I have no pity for those that do. Sometimes, people aren't worthy of saving. It takes a lot for someone, personally, to put me there, I'm pretty forgiving and I tend to help out a little too much sometimes, but when they do, fuck them. I'm big on responsibility and I'm sick of people and their laziness.

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Aye, I did, but I guess what I mean by it is, there are those people who sit around and talk about how crappy the world is and do nothing to change it... I never said you didn't, in fact you do just the opposite...

What always gets me down about environmentalists, animal rights activists, and etc, etc. is that it seems not for one moment do they think about how 80% of the world is in poverty, or hmmm lets see, if the cure for most diseases in the world was just clean water, it wouldn't be possible... even for many, many generations from now... That close to 3 billion people in the world are held under draconian rule by their government and have restrictions placed upon every aspect of their lives... But we live in America... We don't have to worry about that... All we worry about is some owl or grubworm that might go extinct because of man's trepidations... In our country, animals have more rights than most women in the Middle East... Now, how does any of this strike you? It plainly pisses me off...

And I must say I actually DO take care of the environment everyway I can... I recycle, I have an extremely fuel efficient car, I conserve water and electricity... In other words, I do my small part... When we make companies in our country start respecting the rights of our land (the World) and our people (the world's people, not just Americans) then progress can be made... Once WE MAKE THEM take it beyond our borders and in our vehicles, then possibly we might have some solutions...

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Damn, way to stereotype. Know what I'm sick of, people who stereotype environmentalists. Do you know the looks I get when I tell people where I'm going or what I'm doing. Yeah, everyone can fuck off...I'm a tree-hugger and proud. I guess I just don't see it. All of the envronmentalists I know are of the whole "Think Globally, Act Locally". People who are serious about it, usually are. I agree, and it's pissed me off for years. We're so isolated over here in the "land of opportunity". Hell, we don't even know about world events, unless it interrupts our Must See TV...that is, most of us. But I digress, as I'm beginning to generalize as well, but it's true for the majority of the country. Not all of it is our fault though. Our media is run by communications conglomorates and the entertainment industry, we see what they want us to see...yet by the ratings, we want to see fluff...it's a catch 22. The only way to break this, is to demand better reporting, listen to more respected news sources (NPR, BBC, no longer CNN after last February's elections) and just plain fucking CARE. And I also agree that more people need to get off their ass, stop saying they care, and start acting. I guess in the end, you have your causes, and I have mine. Hell, together we could SAVE THE WORLD! ;)

I like owls. I like animals more than a hell of a lot of people. Doesn't mean people don't deserve saving, especially when it's about equality...but, again, I don't see owls staging an uprising anytime soon. Unless, while I was out, they developed voice boxes, gained a few pounds, and grew opposable thumbs. I find it harder to pity people when they don't try and help themselves. They underestimate their power, especially in large numbers.

I guess what we're both saying is, "Don't like it, do something about it." That, and fucking find out what's going on in the world around you, really. Get educated, and yes, that includes environmental issues. If these people understood the implications and outcomes, the far-reaching effects of what we're doing, then maybe we wouldn't be looked at as screaming freaks.

However, all that said. There are some things about "environmentalists" and activists that piss me off. They are so in-the-know and so opinionated, they can come off as belligerent or, basically, just in-your-face. Take PeTA for example. Not one of my favorite organizations, and I wouldn't belong. They don't know how to get their message out there, they're extremists. Nothing gets accomplished when they're around and it makes people like you roll your eyes at the mention of animal rights or environmental issues. So yes, there are some bad apples in the bunch, but the same could be said for any major cause, etc. Greenpeace however, I am proud to be a part of.

As for the companies and corporations getting involved, you're right...but that's changing, if ever so slightly. There are now corporate buildings with their own solar power generators, they supply their own power. Hell, the California utility company, DWP, is a major player in this campaign I'm working on. They want to help the school board get solar power, how cool is that? Sure, they benefit from it, but in this case, everyone does. It's a win-win situation, the virture of selfishness, blah, blah, blah.

So I guess we end up agreeing on most points, I just don't like the label that environmentalists have been given. What's wrong with being a tree-hugger? Those trees help your sorry ass breathe(and I don't mean "you" personally). Sorry I was so testy. :}

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I keep offending you and I don't mean to... You wanna hear how middle-of-the-road I am?

First off, I love this country. Never, ever doubt that. We have more freedom than anywhere else can think about. But government policy of our country both crushes the backs of the poor (ok, I hate saying something like this without an example... We allow our corporations which are based here in the U.S. to violate international law because it's for the almighty dollar, children forced into labor into mines... Don't believe it doesn't go on? Head over to Papau New Guinea) and the breath out of Mother Nature... But I am a big believer in free enterprise, capitalism and supply-side economics (go freaking figure)... I am what you would call an extremist politically because I want both, but noone ever can see how my ideas are possible...

Now addressing organizations I would join... WHO, Amnesty International, Peace Corp... I actually can't think of a human rights/help group that has become "extremist." I would gladly goto any country to help in any little way I could (well duh, I am a nurse).

And don't let the power company fool you... I'm sure they own plenty of coal burning plants, a common problem that every corporation can speak out of both sides of their mouths. SURE! Let's get solar power for the kids! But for the rest of you, here's some fossilized dinosaur poop and guts that when burned make such pretty smoke. Ya know, that's not fair... Fossil fuels are a renewable resource... Once we die, we'll become fossilzed remains for hopefully a smarter civilization...

You ask why they can't do things for themselves? Well, two big things stand in the way of most of the impoverished world... Lack of food and clean water makes you constantly sick and you really don't care... In other words, we need to be the person without a voice, much like animals... Also, if they are part of the middle-class or whatever, they can eat and drink water that doesn't have shit in it, protests are crushed in their country like mosquitos in a hot Texas summer (i.e. China's student protests of 1989). Another sad note, in third world nations, 99% of the populace has some sort of infestation either in their bowels or in their blood. Yum yum.

I wish I had some cute name for wanting to help the populace of the world, but peoplehugger sounds far too stupid. Makes me sound like I have a fetish or something. I guess I don't need a label, and that's fine by me... And I will laugh at anyone that calls me a liberal... Far far from it... I'm so middle-of-the-road, I will make your head spin...

Sorry about being stereotyping-ish-ness... I can't say it won't happen again, but I'll apologize if it does...

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while I mostly agree with you, blu...maybe I've seen too much george carlin.

We're saving the environment for us, not for the sake of the world.

"Pollution isn't just a matter of having clean air to breathe, it's a matter of ecological balance, of changing climate, and in turn, affecting crops, livelihoods, and animal life."

I don't understand why people remove us from the ecological balance...like we're somehow outside of it...like we're so damn impressive that we COULD gobble up the worlds resources. or throw it that much off balance. Aren't we part of the balance? our mistakes too?

no...I believe we are responsible for the environment, and for our actions...and we should damn well do better to take care of it...but I also believe we're going to suffer for our actions....the only thing we're going to destroy is ourselves.

"the earth is going to shake us off like a bad case of fleas."
-george carlin.

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I agree to some point, but it's a dangerous position to take. Not for smarties like you, me, and junglust, but for the not-so-smarties that seem to populate the world. If you start saying "bah, the earth is stronger than us, she'll just kill us all if we mess with her too much." Then no one cares to do anything. Besides, what if that's not true? I'm not willing to find out...though, for the earth's sake, I hope it is true. So...yeah, some people ARE doing it for the earth. (I have this weird thing with inanimate objects and lately I'm realizing I'm more of a fruit than I thought I was).

I currently don't place humans in the ecological balance because we haven't learned to be a part of it. We're not balanced in any way with our surroundings and resources. Perhaps we used to be, thousands of years ago, but no longer. I can only hope that someday we will be a part of that balance once again.

I hope George Carlin is right. I hope that we won't be able to run her into the ground, so to speak. I'm not willing to chance it though, and I don't think anyone else should be either.

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"I currently don't place humans in the ecological balance because we haven't learned to be a part of it. We're not balanced in any way with our surroundings and resources. Perhaps we used to be, thousands of years ago, but no longer. I can only hope that someday we will be a part of that balance once again."

that's what I don't get...how could we ever LEAVE the balance of things? Why is it that our evolution as a species is seen to have somehow evolved out of the balance it used to be in. We are part of the great grand scheme of things, and as such, no matter what we do, we can't take ourselves out of it. <---that isn't really my opinion though...it's an observation at the contradiction in logic a lot of environmentalists have....we're no better than animals...yet somehow we're capable of fucking up more than they are...

Now, as for my actual personal opinion...not playing devils advocate or nitpicking anything...

I believe in god. I'm arrogant and believe that we're gods most beloved creatures...the rest of the world is here for us. stick with me now...it'll sound better in a second. god created this big huge cycle that works...and we are a part of the balance of things...however, because he set us apart and gave us this amazing world to live in....we're ultimately responsible for it. It's a gift. If you don't take care of a gift, not only is it incredibly disrespectful to the one who gave it to you...it's plain stupid. We're ignorant teenagers whose dad has given us a brand new shiny car...and we went out and wrecked it. It's still salvagable..but we'd better learn to take care of wha

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Because you're intelligent and have strong opinions, you couldn't piss me off enough to where I would dislike you. I enjoy a good debate, as long as people know how to do it. :)

As for your first paragraph, I completely agree. I have no arguments against anything you said and it's a shame that more Americans don't know what goes on outside our borders.

I'm not going ot argue about who's pet causes have the most extremists. Being an extremist is a human trait and I'm sure there are people like that in both areas. Anytime you have a group of people who feel very passionate, there's the opportunity for extremism. Amnesty is a very good group though, they ride the line quite nicely. Hard enough to get things done, subtle enough to get the message into thick skulls. :)

As for the DWP, absolutely. I'm sure they do too. But I don't see any other power companies out here making an effort, at least in this area. They're doing it because they see a market for it, they see a profit, they're getting in on the ground floor so to speak. So it's motivated with capitalistic intentions, so what. As long as it's for a greater good, I don't give a fuck why they're doing it..,in this case anyway. I'm sure you heard about California's "energy crisis". So the DWP wants to buy solar panels for the LACCD and then sell the power back to us, good for them. They're finding alternative sources of energy that will save money in the end and do less harm. They want customers and that's understandable. They want to be the one power company, when we start having blackouts again, to be able to say, "Hey, we've got solar, we HAVE energy, come buy it from us." Understandable and everybody wins. It's a slow step with corporations, and though I'm sure they have their wasteful, resources-heavy moments, in the end California DWP is TRYING. They're trying to keep their company alive by finding a more reliable, renewable, cheaper source of energy. And in California, what's better to use than the sun?
I go off, I know, but the point is, I've never seen a utilities company try so hard for green power than they have. They even offer their residential customers the option to use more green power than they have to, which I do. Sure, it costs a little more, but at least they're giving you that option, because they know this won't last and they want to stay afloat, nothing wrong with that. It just makes sense. I'm pretty cynical myself, but this is just plain common sense.

As for people helping themselves, yes, I fell prey to what I was rallying against earlier, thinking in terms of outside America. Yes, there are horrible instances where people literally CANNOT help themselves, that is not what I was talking about. I was referring more to the lazy bastards in this country, and I'm sure others, who could help themselves and choose not to. But I digress, if you're speaking of human rights, we're one of the richest and take what we have for granted. Once again, it's a shame that more people don't know what goes on outside our borders. I'm no better sometimes, because you can listen to the radio and read the papers all you want, but what I KNOW, what I really and truly KNOW is what I see, and that happens to be in this country. I too would gladly help out those who could not help themselves, if that is truly what is going on. Again with the cynicism though.

(cont.)

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Oh, and I would gladly drink water that ONLY has shit in it. Do you know what's in our water today? You know we're probably ALL drinking poo, right...and that's the least of it. There are spreading grounds about 20 miles away where they dump sewage and let it naturally filter through the ground to become our drinking water...well, I don't drink the tap water in California, but still. Yet another instance of fucking with the planet so much that our water is becoming either over-loaded with chemicals or unfit for human consumption (hello, Mexico). How long do you think it will take before we can't even touch the ocean or water? Maybe not in our lifetime, but certainly down the line. Which brings me to a point I wanted to make. You said you had a problem with environmentalists because essentially you think they're ignoring the human problems of the world. But what do you think all of this "saving the planet" is for? Catwoman was right, most of it is for people, and not even for ourselves. We'll never see a balanced earth or the benefits of our hard work. I'll never see the long-term benefits of working for a cleaner energy...but I can only hope that someone does, that future generations will be able to keep it going and improve it further. So yeah, it's not for "us" per se, but for future generations of human beings. It's all connected.
All of that said, I know what you are trying to say and I agree, comparitively, we are so much better off, it's sick and we take it for granted. I wans't trying to compare our state of drinking water with, say, Somalia. There IS no comparison. I was just trying to illustrate how inter-connected the environment is to basic human rights.

I wish I didn't have "some cute name" for what I stand for. Makes it seem unimportant and belittles the cause. So, nyah. ;p

Hey, have you read "The State of the World"? It's put out by the Worldwatch Institute every year, I think 2002 is out now. It has reports on...well, the state of the world, dealing with envrionmental, political, and human rights issues. I haven't been able to get the new one yet, but you might enjoy it. :)

I apologize for my wordiness, or if I've offended you in any way.

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Well cats, I do agree... Here's why we are out of balance... Over-population... Almost all problems actually stem from this one simple thing... With the advance of medicine, agricultural technology, and being able to take care of ourselves better and extending our lifespan from the average of 40 years (around 2000 years ago) to 78 years (current U.S. rate of living, not world average) we have more people... Go figure... The old tradition of have a large family, half of them die in childhood thing doesn't work anymore... We can treat most childhood illnesses pretty easily... What we didn't teach in the meantime was the need for smaller families until 30 years after it happened... There are two authors I can draw from to handle this problem...

One is Issak Asimov, the most prolific American writer... Most of science fiction writing centered on humans going forth and exploring a mostly empty galaxy because his thoughts were that earth was a "happy mistake" in which we luckily were created and we can seek balance elsewhere in the galaxy... What is so astounding about his work is that humans as a whole forget the origins of humanity and forget about earth... Of course, it took over 10,000 years to do so, but it's still interesting none-the-less...

The second is the pulp writer Tom Clancy to where the world has just witnessed in the U.S. a bio-weapon (Ebola) released on the populace... Well, the world is outraged, and a company will soon release a vaccine to protect against this... However, the company is a front for a militant group of environmentalists (sorry Blu) who actually have live viruses in the vaccine instead of attenuated ones, and are also going to release the viruses in the ventilation system at the Olympics in Sydney (ok, it's 3 years old written in 1999), and plan to wipe out the rest of the population with the vaccines after the release... All the while they are holed up in a camp in Brazil's rainforest... Of course the terrorists get ganked, but it's an interesting plan...

I'll take Asimov's plan any day of the week... I'd leave earth to colonize another planet, anyone wanna come?

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ppffft...you know what a sci fi geek I am...

You can be bones, I get to be kirk. Billy can be spock.

"set phasers to 'heat rocks' mr. spock."

you can have sex with all the aliens, though. :p

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Awwww, see, you've gone and brought up religion and now I can't discuss it anymore. ;)

Seriously, I think we've all beat this to death and I can't continue down this road if it involved religious views. I believe that's a personal thing and I don't like discussing it with people, because inevitably, someone will get pissed off or really offended.

I don't see the contradiction in "we're no better than animals...yet somehow we're capable of fucking up more than they are..." because we simply ARE capable of fucking up more than they are. We have the whole voice box, two-legged, opposable thumb thing down pat. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.

In my opinion, animals-innocent, people-not so innocent. Evolution is letting me down.

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It's a nice idea...but I'm stubborn and I don't give up that easily.

Sure, we trash one planet, let's go trash another! Why not seriously try and fix the problems here rather than running away?
Unless you want to implement some scary elitist selection process where only the best and "brightest" get to go to another planet, and of course, that's just disgusting. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
I'm going to shutup now.

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Only the best go into space right now... Well, and the rich (at least the Russians can be paid off)... Most of his books actually show a sort of balance with nature after the nuclear war on Earth (written in the 50's of course), we clean up the world, decide there are too many people, we send off just a few colonies... The relationship between the few planets and earth is poor, where the "Spacers" think they are the shit because they have all this land look down on earthlings... And then the earthlings decide to bust loose and send thousands of millions out into the stars, not to conquer worlds but to coexist... His theory is we would actually have to terraform planets because they would have no fauna or animals of their own... He was quite a smart man...

So, you think the Tom Clancy way of going out and killing off the rest of the populace except for the elite few good environmentalists would be better?

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awww..baby...you can't piss me off.

Muh major is religion and such...so I hear shit all the time...from peopel TRYING to piss me off.

tain't gonna happen. not with you. :)

I understand though.

I wasn't using what I said as an argument, or even a defense for my beliefs...just wanting to tell you where I stand. cause you're muh fwiend.

that whole voice box, two legged, opposable thumb thing is part of being better than the animals ;) I don't mean better as in we're more valuable...oh no...simply more...advanced?

I agree with that last bit whole heartedly.

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I just wanna be kirk. Don't cloud my sci fi fantasies with moral implications!!! ;)

seriously, though...if we ever did have the capability to colonize other planets, I'd be hardnosed against it till we cleaned up our shit here. We'd be a fucking virus if we left now.

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I don't think it's all or nothing, either or (although that's a big trend with you, fallacy boy)

either we leave this planet or we start genociding people.

we could...you know...do what blu does and start trying to fix what we've fucked up.

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I do... I try to fix one person at a time...

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HAHA!

you're still the most arrogant son of a bitch I know!

:)

I adore you.

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Yes, and thank you... I guess we need to stop making blu's LJ look like garbage :)

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I love you cats. :)

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We're not stupid, we're AdVANCED! ;D

I know. I like it when people have the presence of mind to preface their religious beliefs with, "This is my personal belief system." You're not preachy at all, and I admire that.

I recently saw a car on the road with the bumper sticker "America's last hope are God and the Bible". It made me so pissed off. I literally changed lanes just so I didn't have to stare at it. My roommate has a bumper sticker that says "Witches, Not Just for Burning" on her car. I don't think people should, or should NEED to, advertise their religious beliefs. If someone asks, I'll tell them, or if it's in my journal and I need to write about it, okay. But I don't NEED people to know what I believe in that area. It's personal. If more people felt like this, on all sides, then maybe we wouldn't have some of the problems we have. Just a theory though. None of this applies to you though because your comment was relevant, thoughtful, and honest.

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I don't think I've ever had this many comments. It's nice!

And a good discussion to boot...you two spoil me. ;)

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What?! Where did you get that from?! I can only go off of your descriptions as I've not read either authors, though I will look into Asimov. (I'm getting into a little more sci-fi at the moment) But I'm not for the "Tom Clancy way" either. I don't think it's a matter of either or, ya nut.

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HA! everytime I hear that quote I think of microsoft.

I'm not preachy, but I don't keep my beliefs to myself. My goal isn't to convert anybody :p but boy howdy do I like talking about this stuff. Generally, that keeps when I talk about it in context...like you said...when it's relevant. No random "blu, do you know jesus christ? do you want him to be his personal lord and savior?"

however, mormons won't come to my house anymore, because I keep them here for HOURS.

That bumper sticker pisses me off as well. I'm of the opinion that you should educate yourself enough to actually READ the bible...and that the most logical conclusion is that it's written by PEOPLE...not by god. I HATE the diefication of the bible...like it's the 4th member of the trinity or something.

my bumper sticker says:
"there is no sin greater than ignorance"
-rudyard kipling

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I LOVE your bumper sticker. :) Mine simply says "Evolve", but I'm getting one that says, "If you can read this, you're not the president."

I need to read more of the Bible as I do find it fascinating, and yeah, it's deification irks me as well. Must be nice to pick out a passage, take it out of context, and twist it to fit your personal philosophy. Much like the anti-gay Phelps crew does back home. Grrrrr.

I don't really have anything else to say other than, you're one cool kat, cats. ;)

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Why not? Either you accept my rule or die by my strong hand :) You know what is really funny, I am a person that says, "It's not black and white, there's a lot of gray" I think that's funny now :)

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