blustocking | Glutton.

Current Mood: contemplative

Glutton.

I've been thinking, watch out.
Opinions ahead...

So, I've come to some semi-conclusions. I've talked to those who would flee to Canada should we go to war and I've realized how they feel. I understand it and I even agree, to a point. There are only a few things that I don't understand...

Should WWIII break out...where will you go? Canada? Well, I would think Canada would be right there along with us, as they have in the past. So you would go where? Where could you escape today's warfare? Where could you escape nuclear fallout and chemical warfare? Tell me, maybe I'll go with you.

The simple fact is, you can't...why run? Why not stay here, make a stand, protest, chain yourself to the White House, stage a hunger stike, do something here, where we will see it...where your message is more likely to be heard.

Another thing I don't understand is closely related. Knowing that you could not outrun this, knowing that your moving to Canada would not send the message of "Hey I'm a pacifist, I'm not going to participate in this" but rather, "Hey, I'm a coward. I don't wanna die", why not, again, just stay here and raise your voice. I don't think the American government or American people are going to give a rat's ass if some people flee to Canada...they'll be written off. I would think staying here and protesting would make a stronger point. By the way, I am not calling you cowards. I'm sure some people out there would flee JUST to save their own ass, but I don't personally know any of them I think.

The third thing is this. I would not expect you to return. You leave in times of need, you stay away. I'm not condemning anyone's choice to leave, but don't come back. I don't like fair-weather friends and I don't think the country needs them either. I would not admonish you for leaving, but for returning.

The reaction to this horrid event is really letting us see who people are, and this scares me. I'm not talking about ANY of you, but the callous bastards who are "sick of hearing about it". This apathy, this coldness has me almost as scared as what's to come. Humanity indeed.
People are taking this country for granted. We've done horrible things, yes...things most Americans don't even know that we've done. We've been the aggressor, we've been the underhanded militant, we've killed innocents. I, like most, wish I could say that we've been the good guy, always...but it's just not true. But then you think, think about what freedoms you have. You have the RIGHT to slag the government, the right to protest, the right to dress, and worship how you please without governmental retribution. This, if anything, should inspire at least a little loyalty. Yes, you can leave, you can go to a country of similar nature...but what are you running from? If you're running from the oncoming possibility of war...best of luck. If you're running from a country that has an imperfect track record...good luck. We can't escape this, better to stay and make a difference.

I am scared and I am worried for our fate. But I am so grateful for the freedom to say so.

I never thought the National Anthem would bring me to tears...

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You should most certainly be together right now anyway. :)

Yes, I think my initial reaction was a culmination of anger, pride, and complete devasation. I still feel these things, but I think all of us were a little wonky right after this happened. Just like Michael Moore's letter. I think he wrote that too soon after it all happened. bin Laden is not JUST "some guy sleeping in a tent in the desert". Not that I'm blaming this all on bin Laden, but it's just an example of how little we all know, and how our emotions got in the way of clear thinking.

Love ya Panique. :)

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the US. In the end, it is the country in which I was born and which has shaped, for better or worse who I am today. I am an American. I do not at all aupport a lot of what the US does and has done in the past, but I have always appreciated the various freedoms it has given its own people, and I do not take them for granted (OR refuse to see where even these freedoms might be improved upon and strengthened... for example, our "justice" system is an outrage). What I don't like, on the flip-side of the coin, is that our freedom, to me, seems to come at the cost of so many others around the world. We talk about how universally important freedom is, but then go about oppressing so many other people, and supporting many regimes which completely deny their citizens basic civil liberties. That seems, to me, to in some ways defy any freedom we, as Americans living in America may have. And I must admit that that doesn't rest well with me. Like, I said, mixed feelings. But when it comes down to it, this is my country. I neither spit upon it nor adore it. It has its definite and far-reaching problems, it has its very good points; and as an American, I am interested in trying to make the US a good place not only for us, but a good neighbor to others -- a valuable, positive, and *responsible* part of the international community...a point at which I feel we have definitely fallen way short.

About leaving, going to Canada, etc., if WWIII hits. I have been considering leaving the US to take up residence elsewhere for a long time, long before this, and not jus because of this. So I could actually see what the rest of the world is like; get a non-American residential perspective. I think that this is important, for me, just generally in terms of life goals and aspirations. Thinking about my country going to war was something which just further spurned my desire to leave. But as I have thought about it more, I have realized two things. First of all, most likely everyone would be involved, and there would be no real "sanctuary." Second and more importantly, that my voice of protest would not be well-heard if I were elsewhere. I'd be written off as a coward, as someone who does not count, and I am neither of those, and fear is not a real motivation for me to go anywhere, ultimately. I'd stay here and fight in any nonviolent way I could *against* the fighting. I cannot pick up a gun for any "cause" I can yet conceive of, nor can I support that "solution," no matter who employs it. But I may still yet leave the US to see what life is like elsewhere. To hear other peoples' stories, see they way *they* deal with thnigs, etc.... I don't like the tunnelvision anyone who lives anywhere long enough tends to get, and I know that I undoubtedly have a lot of that. I want to have a more open perspective. So I may yet leave. Now, however, if we did go to war, I'd ironically be more likely to stay. But who knows.... only time will tell, really.

Continued!

I still don't agree with the "if you leave, don't come back" perspective. Leaving is not always about being a "fair-weather friend." In the past, some people have left our country during times of war because their own and their families' lives were actively threatened for their pacifist standpoints and political affiliations. And even on the less severe side, many have left in the past during times of war because their country gave them no choice but to pick up a gun or go to jail. That seems pretty anti-freedom to me. If you fundamentally do NOT agree with war, should you be forced to participate? Should you be foreced to either kill or aid in the killing of other people when it goes against everything you hold true? That's a serious situation, and a disagreement between self and (allegedly free) state for which I do not think any person should be 1.) sent to jail for or 2.) spat upon for, if they left and then returned. For me, that's like the vets coming back from Vietnam and being spat upon for being "babykillers," etc. Many thought they should not have returned, but should have stayed away in shame or been blown to bits themselves for having participated in warfare. In the same way that I do not believe they should have been condemned (either then or now), for participating in warfare, I also do not believe that anyone should be condemned for choosing to NOT participate in warfare -- and that includes these same people leaving the US to avoid it, *especially* when and if they are given essentially no choice.

Thanks for bringing this up, Blu. It's important, and the events of Tuesday only opened the need for discussion -- it's going to be continued, necessarily, and should NOT be shut down, for the need for open discussion will become only more imperative as time goes on with this matter.

As I said -- I love your honesty and willingness to talk. And in reutrn, I give you mine :)

Thank you chica. Love to you.

I didn't even KNOW there were limits to posting replies. You rock. :)

I agree that people shouldn't have to fight if they are truly a pacifist...it's a shame that some have used this word willy-nilly though. I respect those whose convictions are strong. So even though we might disagree on some things, I know that you are one of the strongest, most unafraid people I know. I'm hoping against hope that we don't have to find out how unafraid we all are. Like you said, only time will tell.

I too would love to live outside of the U.S. There's only so much information you can get here. Living abroad is the best way to learn about what's really going on in the world. There are a couple places in the U.S. I'd still like to live yet though. But then it's on to gay Paree or London maybe.

So much love to you as well. :)

I know how unnecessary this may seem to you kathleen, but I feel I owe you an apology.

I had read one, maybe two of your posts at the jhonen board about this whole leaving the country yakfest and reduced it to a cowardly choice.

I guess it's only natural to form these little notions when you don't have much to work with.
After reading this I understand your intentions and probably even agree for the most part, I'm sorry I even thought the things I thought. They were groundless and jump-to-conclusion-y and I'm sorry some more.

Again, this is probably all unnecessary but I don't like to let guilt fester in my head.

I am truly grateful for the apology. You didn't have to say anything, but you did.

I've always gotten the distinct impression that you didn't like me before, from our brief and nearly nenexistent interaction in various cyberforums (kat is a paranoid person sometiems who often assumes everyone hates her until proven otherwsie); but I always liked you for your witty banter with others.

And now I like you for your honesty.

Thanks, man.

:)

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Though at first I was in awe of you and a little reluctant to say anything at all, because everyone else seemed to hold you in such high regard. Of course they were all right to do so, and now I do too.

My window is stuck and it's letting cold air in. Hrmph.

Yay!

I'm going to add you to my friends list. I don't care if you add me or not, I'ma add you ;P

It's been a good day :)

And you know what they say, if you can't take the cold then shut your damn window. Or something like that.

And no one should hold me in too high of regard until I fix this rampant typo problem I have been having lately, since I lost the art of proofreading. Man. My posts used to sound semi-intelligent, and lately they have been nothing but embarrassing. Reading over what I just posted in response to Blu's entry, I am horrified. I think the content's there, but the form..... ye gods.

*hugs the boddah and runs away in a flurry of typos*

If you want to hear about typos, just ask Blu or Sleepy Cookie about chatting with me.

Noooo, I can't do it.

gud tiepins fer sisseys.

"The reaction to this horrid event is really letting us see who people are, and this scares me. I'm not talking about ANY of you, but the callous bastards who are "sick of hearing about it". This apathy, this coldness has me almost as scared as what's to come. Humanity indeed.
People are taking this country for granted"

THANK YOU SWEETEST ELOQUENT BLU i have been trying to put this sentiment into words since tuesday (yes, i encounterd people who said that they were "sick of hearing about it" even on *tuesday*).

finally it is expressed. thank you. i shall steal this and use it everywhere (givin you credit of course)

-da mole

t'aint nuthin'.

;)

Seriously. Thank you very much. I don't think I'm that "eloquent". I used to be, but I think I lost it. Maybe it's coming back though...took a horrible culmination of events to light a fire under me arse.

I heard people making jokes about it on Tuesday. I still can't believe that. I also picked up Time and Newsweek (I'm not too fond of either, but they are nice to keep) and, I believe it was in Newsweek, there was a picture of a group of college kids in what looked like a Student Union hearing about the attack. They all looked puzzled, shocked, hurt and upset, save one...he had a grin on his face like his buddy just told him a joke. Made me so angry.

Take care moley.

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I understand and thought of all of those, but most people resort to black humor and or, "laughing it off" when they're at least a little further away (in time) from it. He was watching these events unfold before his very eyes...that I don't understand...wait, maybe I should have put it differently... Logically, I understand, but my heart doesn't get it.

I'm more inclined to believe that he didn't know the gravity of the situation. I just stood there in horror at those buildings falling when I saw it...the real implications of how many died, what the aftermath would be, or what could have happened didn't hit me until much later when I came home and just sat in the middle of the floor and cried.

It just shocks me how much we've lost our ability to empathize.

You so logical Ms. Vodka. ;)

i watched the events unfolding in the classroom of my 7th period AP english. the 20 of we 16/17 year-olds sat and watched it on the monitor, not even comprehending that it could be true.

we didn't see any planes hit the buildings, we all tuned in too late for that. we did not yet understand how grave the situation was.

we were watching fox news in the room and a reporter was walking around on the street. he interviewed some fellow who was on his way home, stuck in traffic. the man had an amazingly thick new york accent who chose some *cough* interesting diction (as in: every other word was fuck) and we laughed. it was involuntary, as many laughs are, and it was just a chuckle, but as soon as the class laughed, we realized as a whole that it was totally inappropriate for the situation.

i completely forgot about us laughing until reading blusNvodkas replies....

O_o very strange.

i guess it was just a release.

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Glutton.

no subject

Thinking (Part 1.... won't let me post more than 4000 words :P)

Thinking (Part 2)

Wow!

Everyone else commented, so I feel it is my duty as a card-holding Friend-o-Blu to do the same

hiya boddah

Didn't like you?!

well shucks :)

Wheehaw, more friends!

"I'm fu..."

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Shooooo...

Yes...

Re: Yes...