My hair is in pigtails and it's fucking cute.

[blustocking]

For all of you who answered the previous spanking question, thank you. :)

The theory, which is pretty simple and should hold true, but looks like it might not, is that spanking as a child creates a desire to be submissive in life, nay, sex. I can only speak for myself, so I will.

I was spanked, not much...more of threatened, but I was occasionally spanked. In fact, my parents had one of those wooden paint-stirring sticks, the one you use to stir house paint. They had drilled a hole in the end and tied a little lanyard on the end so that they could hang it on the fridge. On one side, my Mother wrote "Jill's Warm Side" and on the other "Jill's Hot Side", and I SWEAR I could tell the difference. I would hide that damn thing all OVER the house, but they'd always either find it, or just make another one. I think I only, vaguely, remember getting spanked once or twice, though I'm sure it was more, with it. The only really vivid spanking I remember is when I picked up my mother's birdbath and just dropped it. I think I was testing gravity,(children are really just little scientists) for there was NO other reason. She ran over pulled down my pants and smacked my ass before I even had a chance to think.

Here's the thing though. I absolutely adore my parents, they can do no wrong. All of the spanking was justified and it served to show me who was in charge. Of course, later, I just learned to be more creative to get what I want, but I damn well respected my parents and, essentially, I was a good kid. I'll have to ask my sister if she was spanked in that way though, because she was quite the little rebel (I just hid mine well). She, I know, was slapped in the face by my mother once, and I wasn't. That, is entirely different than getting a little paddle on the bottom.

Anyway, here's the meat. I've found that people are generally opposite of what they appear to be in day-to-day life. I'm pretty strong-willed, opinionated, and such, but I'm a submissive when it comes to sex. Now, I've been dominant and can and have played the role, but in the truest of true, I'm a sub. I've always had a fascination with cruel love. Perhaps this explains why Labyrinth is my favorite movie? That line that Bowie speaks towards the end, and I'm misquoting most likely, "Just love me, let me rule you, do as I say, and I will be your slave". It is contradictory and seemingly doesn't make sense, but it does. I want the push and pull and I want to lose to someone who adores me.

So, is it true, that assertion of power when you were young, did it make you crave it in adulthood? Or is it more simple than that, and did it just make you have a thing for spankings? I've never been one to enjoy being spanked, only occasionally and when absolutely appropriate, but it doesn't really get me off. It seems silly most of the time. I enjoy more subtle shows of dominance.

The woman I've had a crush on the longest is a dominant. She's strong and she's a bitch. She's the one all others were compared to. She made me search for a replacement, since she hates me but in the end, she's disappointed me. I found a girl like her once, but she ended up being quite submissive and I couldn't take the lead, not with her.

So tell me, for you, what do you think being spanked, or not being spanked did to you as an adult? For me, I wouldn't change a thing, and in theory, I think it defines the balance of power for children, but that's theory and I would probably have a hard time doing it to my own kids. My parents had a good system, of fairness and justification. But you also have to take into account that I was a stubborn little kid, just like my Dad. Being spanked didn't really faze me, but it made me have respect for my parents and acknowledge who was in control. The psychological effects were beneficial. I think it depends on the child and that's so hard to judge. But it also depends on the parents. They have to be fair and able to judge when it's really necessary and how firm to be depending on the situation.

Thoughts?

Comments

How to say 'Maybe' in 200 words.

[neobitch.livejournal.com]

HmmMMmm. Wellnow. How curious.

I don't think the spankings and swats and slaps and what-have-you had any negative effect on me. I think a kid plain ol' needs 'em sometimes, and all the time-outs and talks in the world will never convey what a spanking does. But that's me, and maybe I just think the rest of the world should have a wooden spoon broken on their ass, too. ;)

Did the spankings made me crave a dominant/authority presence in my life now? Wow. I've honestly never tied the two together before this post of yours. Maybe it did, you know? I am very, very (very, very, very...) submissive at heart. This sometimes tangles up with self-esteem issues and makes for a very dangerous mess, but so it goes. Even if I someday accept and unconditionally love myself, I'll still get weak in the knees at dominant statements and personalities.

Though...I've never been spanked as an adult. I'm really not sure I'd even enjoy it. It's on my List of Debaucheries Yet To Partake In, though. These things need to be tried before they're written off. ;)

How very intriguing, all of this. Thanks for posing the question, and your musings have been very interesting to read. :)

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

The world could use a good thwack on the bottom, indeed. And I don't think the spankings or punishment I received had a negative effect on me either. But they were pretty mild, compared to others it seems.

And you, one must always try new things. How else are you going to know if you like them or not, and most importantly, WHY you dislike or like them. ;)

That should read...

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

"And yes,..."

[catwoman980.livejournal.com]

I dunno what me being submissive has to do with how my parents treated me...I think it's more roundabout...

I don't think you can make the leap straight from spankings to being a sub. I think you can go from being spanked caused you to become a perfectionist...which means you're controlling...and from there you can make the connection as to how you became submissive.

I'm sure being spanked does have at least a little to do with it, but I think any part of your psyche was created by LOTS of factors...it's very, very rare that only one event (or type of event) shaped even the tiniest part of your personality. It's a mixture of everything that's happened to you, how you reacted to them, how they happened in relation to other things, that makes you who you are.

honestly...you may even have been born as a sub. It may just be inherent..not socialized.

I do see your point, though.

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

I'm not in any way saying it's that simple. "Oh, you were spanked quite a bit, YOU'RE A SUB!"
No, no I realize it has much more to it than that. It was just an interesting link I was toying with. I think, personally, it did shape who I am today, but it wasn't the only factor.

I actually got the idea when I saw one of my co-workers training their new puppy. She would hold the puppy on her lap (a pretty big puppy) only it had to sit on it's back as she stroked it's tummy. She said it asserted dominance. And though I realize we're not all of puppy mind and there are many other contributing factors, it was an interesting thought. We take in much more as children than we realize, more than we'll ever know even.

But you're right, because I have the traits of my Father and Mother, perhaps some of it is inherent, but it was certainly cultivated at an early age.

This is going to be odd, but there was some stupid 80's cop show, I actually think it was Miami Vice, where a "villain" was walking around in a warehouse. He had this row of gold, female mannequins tied up. They were held up by their hands an posed in such a way that they were definitely sexualized. He walked by a few of them, kissed their stomachs, walked back away from them, and shot each one to pieces, as if in target practice. THAT, stuck with me. It hit a chord. That control and helplessness, the "love", and the demise. So yeah, something had to have been in my brain before then to have that affect me in such a way. There was also some made for teevee movie set in the 1800's where this guy kidnapped a woman he loved and took her away on a ship. I remember her being tied up to the mast as he professed his love, I think she had loved him once as well, can't remember. Anyway, that stuck with me as well.

But I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. This isn't what I'm ALL about. This is just something that fascinates me. In theory, not ALWAYS in practice. Like I said, I can play both roles and like Kat, often enjoy the push/pull rather than a clearly defined sub/dom relationship.
Though, it's never very clear. Subs can actually BE the dominant and vice versa. It's all subtle and complex, I enjoy that.

I see your point as well. :)

[qat.livejournal.com]

Wow, I don't know. I always resented acts of control over me a lot, spankings and yelling, but when it comes to sex in true love, I don't really do dom or sub in the classic sense, I don't think.... I like switching places, I like both, I like either/or or neither/nor. I see the appeal of both and neither, and I've done it all in that respect. I've tied and been tied and it can be very cool both ways.... The only real relationship I had with a woman was very clear-cut role-playing and I hated it. For her it had to be dominant or submissive, *really* - all the stuff that can go with it, and I consented because I thought maybe it would be cool, who knew. With her it was fucked up, she liked to be submissive and play the victim.... to get control over me, in the end. Not only in sex but in all other aspects of life and relationships - this was her weapon: guilt, submission, pain and dominance through victimhood. It was FUCKED. I skedaddled. I know role-playing, real dominance and submission can be very exciting, and I've been in situations where it was, but I tend to associate dom/sub with her sometimes.... at least as far as its dangers go.

Then again I was rarely spanked or hit at all as a kid, so maybe I don't have any real perception of it associated with this.... Um, I like sex, I like love, a lot, and I'll leave it at that :) IT RULES!

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

Yes, that was what it was like with James. It was a true fetish and he NEEDED it to get off. But you know, sometimes, just plain' ol' sex is the best. But no, it had to be him Dom all the time, me sub. No real sex was had, just oral, once. It was fun for awhile, but I don't think I could do that all the time, be a live-in slave. I've toyed with it, but I need to assert too much control. I need variety.

Hrm...

[khayman.livejournal.com]

You and I don't post in each other's journal much. But I find this a very interesting discussion to follow.

I was spanked frequently as a child, both by hand and through the use of a wooden spoon (that'll leave a mark). Also my stepfather has a very violent temper and is prone to outbursts of rage, while he never hit me, he held me against walls by my shirt at times while he yelled or took out his anger on nearby items. Being a very timid child, this made me terrified of him, and to this day (I'm 23) something about him still scares me.

I honestly don't know if being spanked left an impact on my sexual life. I never draw paralells between spanking/being spanked or other dom/sub activities and my childhood. I can lead or follow, however I haven't had many partners who would be willing to lead. The few times it's happened I tend to go sub pretty strongly and enjoy it very much... it is definitely my leaning. Perhaps they are linked. The fact that both my parents and my stepfather were all strong, domineering individuals and that I was spanked by them could have something to do with it. However, unlike you, being spanked usually made me feel defeated rather than defiant.

I guess sexually I like feeling defeated and at the whim of my partner. No matter if that is physically or psychologically.

Make of it what you will.

In-ter-es-teeng...

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

verree, verree een-ter-es-teeng. *smokes pipe*

[nejgasmo.livejournal.com]

I've always had a fascination with cruel love. Perhaps this explains why Labyrinth is my favorite movie?

Well.. That, and it's one of the best movies ever made in the history of the universe EVER. Yeah, it's in my top 3, if you couldn't guess. ;)

So tell me, for you, what do you think being spanked, or not being spanked did to you as an adult?

I think that I'm the opposite of you in this respect... I'd have a lot less respect for my parents if they'd spanked me when I was a kid. But, as it is, I have respect for my parents because they found a way without resorting to spanking.

People tend to tell their kids to "use [their] words" after the kid socks their little sister in the arm or something. I'm glad my parents practiced what they preached. :)

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

Yes, finding a way to do it without resorting to spanking is probably the safest, more preferable way to go, as you never know how it will affect a specific child. I don't think it affected me in any adverse way, but that's me. Your parents are to be commended.

[nejgasmo.livejournal.com]

Believe me, I let them know how amazing they are as often as possible without sounding like a kiss-ass. Especially since my sister was quite possibly the most rebellious girl I've ever been witness to. She used to take it out on the whole family when her boyfriend du jour would piss her off, but she didn't dare confront him about it.

She was confrontational, violent, and she ran away a lot. And they somehow managed to (eventually) control this behavior without slapping her (which I felt like doing on many occasions, despite the fact that I was half her size). They're amazingly tolerant people, my parents. It's almost unreal how nice they are. :)

I know I already posted

[qat.livejournal.com]

But you really got me thinknig about the situation and I wanted to SHAAAAARE. Awww, share.

I can see how there might indeed be a psychological link between being spanked or whatever as a child and sexual tendencies later in life, in at least one possible way. We tend to always build our world and our perceptions and our selves around what we know - what we see, the place we live and the people we are with, our firsthand experiences, etc. - and we do with that what we can. It affects our behavior, our beliefs, and our actions. When we're very young, our parents serve as perhaps the biggest role models and builders for the world we live in, and they way we come to think of the world and our selves. These big important people make rules, set meal and bed times, make us go to school, etc. They also act as judge and jury when we do something wrong, and decide on punishment. Maybe if they spank us, we do indeed feel submissive and controlled, and this is carried through into adulthood and the relationships we form outside family - including love and sex. Maybe if we felt humiliated by, resentful of, or just scared of the spankings or other physical acts our parents did to us when young - or maybe even not in cases as severe as humilation, but even just a case of a sense/memory of being dominated as children - we will seek somehow to resolve that through sex as adults - come to peace with submissiveness, and actually thereby somehow gain control over both our selves and our relationships *through* submissiveness. Being submissive was something we could not control as children; but as adults, we can, and can perhaps effectively use it to come to terms with ourselves, our childhoods, and power in general. Like the quote you brought up from 'Labyrinth' - let me rule you and I will be your slave - the person who submits can have great power of the dominant one. Submissiveness can be empowering. Sex is one place where that can really be realized, more so certainly than a child/parent situation, in which the parent is almost indisputably the one in total control. So maybe if people who were spanked etc. as a kid are able to turn this submissiveness to their advantage in sex, etc., it is actually therapeutic and not damaging to *either* person involved. It makes them feel they have control over submissiveness/dominance, instead of feeling entirely at its mercy as they probably did as children. As an adult, the fears of the past can be conquered with the same tools of dominance/submission, and personal peace and well-being can be reached. Much different from people who use so-called innocentce, helplessness, and submissiveness to manipulatively gain control over people who fall for it; who cling to pain as a very wrong means of control, victimhood, martyrdom, blah blah.

I have no clue if that made any sense or was just a lot of wanking. Eek, it seemed like an interesting idea.

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

I LOVE YOU! I fucking LOVE YOU! :)

Yes, that made sense, it was what I was getting at. It doesn't work for everyone, as you said, there are people who end up being victims or just being manipulative, and that's a whole different story, but that pretty much sums up how I feel about it, personally. Though, of course, there are exceptions and it's always so complex, it's still fascinating and seems to work for me.

*sigh* I love how you put things. :)

It's so hard to sit here and have to work when I really want to get into this and respond more thoroughly. I keep having to write pieces at a time. Urgh.

[qat.livejournal.com]

Wow, it made some sense, yay! Whew. I found a bunch of typos in it, though.... it made me so angry I had to get a whipping. :)

I was thinking more about this, in connection with a book I read by Gayl Jones, called 'Corregidora.' A really beautiful but disturbing book about a woman who must cope not only with abusive relationships in her present - sexual abuse, beating, etc. - but also abuse in her family's past. Her female ancestors were slaves, owned by a man named Corregidora. Besides just being a slaveowning fuck, wrong to begin with, he blatnatly sexually abused the women (as slaveowners often did), made them submit to his will constantly in very humiliating ways. The protagonist of the story always heard stories about his abuse from her mother and grandmother, and feels that even she in the present can't escape this kind of dominance. Even though the days of "official" slavery are over, she somehow feels connected to it and trapped by it. She runs away from dominant men, but can't seem to escape them; but at the end takes her ex-husband (who threw her down the stairs and caused her to lose her baby and never be able to have children after that) back to her house, undresses him and herself, and kneels before him to give him oral sex.... something she always refused to do before. She submits herself to a man who was formerly abusive to her - is literally on her knees before him, very symbolic. And many critics argue that, in doing so, she is able to overcome the pain connected with submission of both her own personal past and her family's, and resolve it - that's the end of the book, resolution both in form and content has been reached. Submission as "therapy." But like you said, it's so subtle, and complex, and tricky.... other critics argue that nothing is resolved at the end. And in fact, it is very debatable. The book really ends with him climaxing, and her saying to him, still on her knees, "I could kill you." Then he tells her, "I don't want a woman who would hurt me," and she replies "I don't want a man who would hurt me either." And then it ends. You're not sure if they're going to get back together and everything will have changed, been resolved, be healthy and happy, if resolution really has been reached (climax is resolution, but does this symbolism really imply *full* resolution?); or if the cycle of humiliation, dominance, abuse and submission will continue. It's REALLY interesting, and reminded me of this discussion.

Yeah.

There's lots of dicussion of sex, dominance, submission, empowerment, and related stuff in colonial/post-colonial literature and criticism.... all related to race, gender, and power. It's really interesting. You might dig it :)

Holy crap!

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

Your school principal was one sick fuck. Not to be insensitive, but I bet he completely got off on that. What with laying the cane against the skin and THEN pulling it back for the thrash. That, is something people who enjoy giving punishment or spankings do. Ick. Do you think this has affected you in your adult life, Ms. Vodka? I can completely see being adverse to spanking after growing up around that.

p.s. IS THAT YOU?! If so, oh my god! You're gorgeous! You look like Drew Barrymore! XD

Rachel O talks about her turn-ons!!!

[rachelo.livejournal.com]

I was spanked plenty of times as a kid, but I definitely prefer the thought of dominating guys to letting them dominate me. This probably is a result of my insecurities and lack of trust in other people, but I love the thought of a hot guy in handcuffs. Hell, I even think I could get into being a professional dominatrix... You don't even have to have sex with the guys and you get paid to strut around in leather. Forgive me if you can never face me again...

That was fabulous!

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

And I think you should become a professional dominatrix...and you should practice on boddah.

[filleinvisible.livejournal.com]

Ok. I admit it, I like spankings. It's damn sexy. I've even asked the boyfriend to buy me a riding crop (but his belts work just fine). I think I'm a combination of dom and sub. It depends on my mood, but sometimes I like to be the one in charge. Now that I think about it, I always like to be in charge. I act sub, but I'm still calling the shots. In real life I'm quiet, and I don't like to call attention to myself. I hate to speak up (but do it out of necessity). Hmmmm. Now you've got me thinking!

I have no idea if this has anything to do with my upbringing. It kind of grosses me out to think so. Urgh!

aHA!

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

At least that theory holds true, for the most part.

I really have found that most people are opposite of what you would immediately think they are. You being all quiet and not calling attention to yourself in public and then loving to be in charge in bed. Fabulous!

MWAHAHAHA! You're all my leetle experiments! ;)

Re: aHA!

[filleinvisible.livejournal.com]

You are cracking me up - no pun intended!

*busts out cat o' nine*

[blustocking.livejournal.com]

THWACK!

;)

[chococat.livejournal.com]

I was spanked as a kid. Also slapped, punched, kicked, hit with doors, and had things thrown at me.

Not only am I sub, I also find it hard to have sex unless it's violent.

Yeah, I think the way my parents treated me has a bearing on this. Also, I was raped at knifepoint when I was little more than a child, which probably contributes to it, as well.

Pain and violence makes it bearable. The thought of gentle love isn't really one that exists in my mind. I suppose it's not really surprising - but I agree with you. I don't think that getting spanked and/or smacked around made me respect my parents, though - I just feared and hated them. I felt like I could never argue or disagree with them, because every time I did I'd get whacked. I just learned to go along with whatever they said and bury any feelings I had about it, and keep quiet...not great psychological benefits...

Sorry, went off on a tangent a bit there...! Interesting point, anyway. Excuse my ramblings!

I hope it's not too late to reply to this...

[alera.livejournal.com]

hey...found your journal through friends of friends of friends of friends.

interesting thread you got here. I have really strong feelings on this subject. I was spanked very occasionally as a child by otherwise very loving and doting parents. I was never hit by anthing other than hands, I don't think, and as far as these things go, I'm sure I had done something to "deserve" it. I was certainly never hit hard enough to really hurt me.

BUT BUT...here's the thing. I think it's *horrible*, and deep down I can't forgive them for it. Like, even now, I'm nearly 30, and just thinking about my parents spanking me makes me so angry I want to drive all the way to their house and physically hurt THEM. Don't get me wrong, I love my parents very much, and we get along great, but I fucking hate the idea of spanking, and it's almost like the fact that they occaisionally spanked me wipes out 18 years worth of loving, good parenting. Just the idea that anyone would hit me, particularly when I was a defenseless child, makes me want to go over to my parents house and pull their fingernails out one by one. HOW DARE THEY.

Of course I wouldn't really. I'm just trying to convey how it makes me feel. (Obviously, it makes me VERY VERY angry.) But I think hitting a child is a kind of violation, and wrong. Oddly enough, I don't think I ever fought back when I was spanked, and now I wish I had. I wish I had bitten them deep enough to leave scars.

Yeah, I have issues.

But am I submissive?? no. I'm not a dom either. I have nothing against BDSM, but for me personally i find it kind of silly.